Great article! These are all fair points, but there is an underlying point in that the plot of Avatar 1 is actually very generic and a very 'basic' "Dance with Wolves" rehash. There is nothing memorable about the story, literally.
Nice one. I think characters and plot are two key points that go towards explaining a lukewarm existence post-theatrical. Both were largely generic, so the 'experience' is what everyone comes away with.
I'd love to see a similar analysis for The Matrix which arguably did not have a huge IP or wider flywheel push at the time either but surely has had longer lasting impact and cultural relevance?
Cameron is the director, and part, of two massive franchises, the Terminator and Alien worlds, so he has made movies that have remained in the public consciousness for decades. Aliens is one of my very favorite films. And Terminator 2 is one of the greatest action movies. I love your examination of the meme phenomenon for movies. I feel silly that I've never specifically thought of memes as being one measure of a film's lasting cultural footprint. Cameron has made a few great and good films that don't get memed much, if at all. True Lies and the Abyss aren't memed. I think The Abyss is one of the most underrated films out there. So I guess, in the end, is that Cameron has made good and great movies 100% of the time but only 44% of his movies have a lasting cultural impact. I think any filmmaker ever would take that career!
He did not make the Alien worlds. Ridley Scott did the first film and Cameron did everything he could to ruin the “franchise” by making a lowbrow action film out of an exquisite space horror masterpiece. Cameron was not invited back. Next up was Fincher, etc.
Probably because True Lies and The Abyss don't have any sequels and therefore aren't proper franchises like Terminator and Alien. Just like Avatar wasn't a proper franchise for 13 years until just recently.
The claims of Avatars lack of cultural impact seemed to have almost no impact on its sequels box office impact, which made 2.3 billion. Also the Avatar reddit went from 17K just before Avatar 2 to 542K members now and might be over a million by Avatar 3. To me that doesn't indicate a franchise struggling with relevance.
Good points! I started watching Way of Water at home on Disney +, and never finished it. I was completely uninvested on what was happening in screen, and couldn’t for the life of me remember why I recommended my friends to see the first one after seeing it in theaters. I always think of the headaches I’d get from 3D movies, but I think that was one of the ones that didn’t give me one.
Does this post prove that in 2024, we'd rather watch a B-movie with 100 meme-able moments than a visual effects masterpiece? I guess "cultural impact" should be Hollywood's new currency vs box office revenue.
They tried rereleasing Morbius based on all the memes it generated and it mega flopped. Anyone who thinks memes equal box office success needs their head examined.
Great analysis as always! There’s a memorable scene in How To with John Wilson from a couple years ago where he meets a group of diehard Avatar fans. It made me realize that Avatar’s uncoolness is seen as a virtue by the social outcasts who still cherish it.
The connection to Speed Racer at the end made it click for me. People hated on that movie because of its excesses, but that excess is exactly what made it such a great theater experience. I could see Avatar being part of the same phenomenon.
Great analysis! Not everything is about “maximal cultural footprint”. Sometimes it’s just “maximal quality”. (So says a boomer who’s not a big fanboy but who recently returned to Disney’s Animal Kingdom for a 2nd visit to Pandora there. Highlights were a second time on the 3d sense-around ride and lunch at the really-well-done themed restaurant.) Big Jim initially won me over with Titanic. But I’m still more of a fan of the *original* Alien over his sequel.
Five years ago, Jacksfilms made a video where he offered money to strangers if they could name any characters from Avatar. Everyone went to go see it because it was visually impressive but hardly anyone actually cares/cared about the movie itself.
You can do that for almost any movie that isn't a multi movie franchise and doesn't have a characters name in the title (I would certainly be hard pressed to name a single character in 95% of movies I have seen once, years ago). That doesn't mean no one cared about those movies.
Agreed. This is the take away from the analysis for me. Avatar was a movie experience designed to get people paying to attend in person. Theatre turnover is too high and distribution is global so movies don’t have extended runs like theatre productions. Consider Phantom of the Opera has run consistently since 1988 and generated £6 billion in ticket sales.
There’s probably a good post for someone to compare top grossing theatre shows versus cinema.
Great article! These are all fair points, but there is an underlying point in that the plot of Avatar 1 is actually very generic and a very 'basic' "Dance with Wolves" rehash. There is nothing memorable about the story, literally.
Skill issue
Nice one. I think characters and plot are two key points that go towards explaining a lukewarm existence post-theatrical. Both were largely generic, so the 'experience' is what everyone comes away with.
I'd love to see a similar analysis for The Matrix which arguably did not have a huge IP or wider flywheel push at the time either but surely has had longer lasting impact and cultural relevance?
The Sam Worthington bit got me every time. Very well done.
Cameron is the director, and part, of two massive franchises, the Terminator and Alien worlds, so he has made movies that have remained in the public consciousness for decades. Aliens is one of my very favorite films. And Terminator 2 is one of the greatest action movies. I love your examination of the meme phenomenon for movies. I feel silly that I've never specifically thought of memes as being one measure of a film's lasting cultural footprint. Cameron has made a few great and good films that don't get memed much, if at all. True Lies and the Abyss aren't memed. I think The Abyss is one of the most underrated films out there. So I guess, in the end, is that Cameron has made good and great movies 100% of the time but only 44% of his movies have a lasting cultural impact. I think any filmmaker ever would take that career!
He did not make the Alien worlds. Ridley Scott did the first film and Cameron did everything he could to ruin the “franchise” by making a lowbrow action film out of an exquisite space horror masterpiece. Cameron was not invited back. Next up was Fincher, etc.
Probably because True Lies and The Abyss don't have any sequels and therefore aren't proper franchises like Terminator and Alien. Just like Avatar wasn't a proper franchise for 13 years until just recently.
The claims of Avatars lack of cultural impact seemed to have almost no impact on its sequels box office impact, which made 2.3 billion. Also the Avatar reddit went from 17K just before Avatar 2 to 542K members now and might be over a million by Avatar 3. To me that doesn't indicate a franchise struggling with relevance.
I have always believed this argument mosty comes from aggrieved "Avatar The Last Airbender" fans
Good points! I started watching Way of Water at home on Disney +, and never finished it. I was completely uninvested on what was happening in screen, and couldn’t for the life of me remember why I recommended my friends to see the first one after seeing it in theaters. I always think of the headaches I’d get from 3D movies, but I think that was one of the ones that didn’t give me one.
Does this post prove that in 2024, we'd rather watch a B-movie with 100 meme-able moments than a visual effects masterpiece? I guess "cultural impact" should be Hollywood's new currency vs box office revenue.
They tried rereleasing Morbius based on all the memes it generated and it mega flopped. Anyone who thinks memes equal box office success needs their head examined.
Great analysis as always! There’s a memorable scene in How To with John Wilson from a couple years ago where he meets a group of diehard Avatar fans. It made me realize that Avatar’s uncoolness is seen as a virtue by the social outcasts who still cherish it.
Such a great episode! I wanted him to do a follow-up with them when the sequel came out lol
The connection to Speed Racer at the end made it click for me. People hated on that movie because of its excesses, but that excess is exactly what made it such a great theater experience. I could see Avatar being part of the same phenomenon.
Great analysis! Not everything is about “maximal cultural footprint”. Sometimes it’s just “maximal quality”. (So says a boomer who’s not a big fanboy but who recently returned to Disney’s Animal Kingdom for a 2nd visit to Pandora there. Highlights were a second time on the 3d sense-around ride and lunch at the really-well-done themed restaurant.) Big Jim initially won me over with Titanic. But I’m still more of a fan of the *original* Alien over his sequel.
Brilliant article! Very interesting read & got me thinking more about opportunities to dig into the data behind home ent.
Five years ago, Jacksfilms made a video where he offered money to strangers if they could name any characters from Avatar. Everyone went to go see it because it was visually impressive but hardly anyone actually cares/cared about the movie itself.
You can do that for almost any movie that isn't a multi movie franchise and doesn't have a characters name in the title (I would certainly be hard pressed to name a single character in 95% of movies I have seen once, years ago). That doesn't mean no one cared about those movies.
Agreed. This is the take away from the analysis for me. Avatar was a movie experience designed to get people paying to attend in person. Theatre turnover is too high and distribution is global so movies don’t have extended runs like theatre productions. Consider Phantom of the Opera has run consistently since 1988 and generated £6 billion in ticket sales.
There’s probably a good post for someone to compare top grossing theatre shows versus cinema.